CK,

" We all want to look our best, but having hair loss causes a lot psychological issues. Visit a hair loss message board and you'll always be sure to see "I can't take it, I want to die" type of thread. Almost everyone at one point hits rock bottom with hair loss. I'm 20 years old and diffuse NW 2.5. If I were 40 or beyond, I honestly wouldn't care, as it's a sign of getting older. I'll also assume that at 40 I would probably have a career and family. But at 20 it hits so hard because you're just really starting out on your own, already with a big disadvantage. Is hair loss life threatening? No, but saying it's not cancer certainly doesn't address the fact that it is a problem beyond vanity. Is life threatening the qualifier for whether or not something should be important? To categorize it as pure vanity is missing the point of why so many men (again, especially us younger guys who started losing around 17-18 ) are unhappy and want a solution. "


Yes CK, I completely understand the ramifications of hairloss. The main point I was trying to make is how this will be viewed ~ not only by the FDA but by the general public. Imagine ~ the FDA is looking at a treatment and must weigh the potential unchartered waters of long term use verses the absolute need / urgency issue. In cases where aggressive cancers / illnesses exist AND there is no KNOWN cure ~ the picture becomes quite different . Let me give you my prespective which is slightly older than yours. There have been many drugs and many treatments in the past which were thought to have great potential. Let's look at one very famous drug to give an idea of how some aspects change :

"Thalidomide is not approved for general sale in the United States. However, the Food and Drug Administration allows it to be used in studies (such as this one). These are studies of certain severe or life threatening diseases where there may be no other treatment.

The purpose of this study is to attempt to treat your condition and to gather information about the safety and the potential benefit of thalidomide.

While you are taking thalidomide, you will be told by your doctor of any new information that might cause you to change your mind about taking thalidomide.


WARNING FOR FEMALE PATIENTS:

Tragically, when thalidomide was used by pregnant women, it resulted in the birth of thousands of deformed babies. In 1961 scientists discovered that the medication stunted the growth of fetal arms and legs. In fact, taking only one dose of thalidomide early in pregnancy can severely affect the growth of fetal limbs (arms, legs, hands, feet). It also puts the fetus at risk of other injuries, including eye and ear defects and severe internal defects of the heart, genitals, kidneys, digestive tract (including lips and mouth), and nervous system. "


This drug was devastating to many ! " In 1961 scientists discovered that the medication stunted the growth of fetal arms and legs. In fact, taking only one dose of thalidomide early in pregnancy can severely affect the growth of fetal limbs (arms, legs, hands, feet). "

The big bang to this is the fact that one (ONE !) dose was enough to cause such tragic lives for many. I can not stress enough that if you were to meet a thalidomide adult today , you would most likely have a different viewpoint of the need for caution where urgent medical treatment is not called for.

IMO (and if I was sitting on an FDA panel), the altering of any pathway for the sole purpose of a vanity/mental heath issue would be given little more than a glance. There are people who lose their hair to cancer treatments who need to come to grips with hairloss. Yes, they are depressed that their hair falls out due to treatment. They are much more concerned,however, with surviving.

This is the crux of the issue and why I feel this treatment might take a back seat to conventional hair replacement techniques (ie surgical) for many years.

I meant to share how my example has changed within the last 45 years (from 1961 to 2006)~


"Thalidomide was banned for its initial intended use as sedative. However, it has been found to be effective for other indications such as for leprosy and multiple myeloma. As a result thalidomide analogs are being developed with the intent to offer effective drugs that are safe.

Alan Pharmaceuticals is a key supplier of thalidomide worldwide. It cooperates closely with Thalidomide UK, the advisory and campaign organization run by the survivors of the thalidomide tragedy. Also, it is marketed by Celgene as Thalomid with standard warnings for pregnant women to avoid taking it."

So, even though this drug had horrific repercussions under its former use ~ it might have some worthwhile aspects going forward ~ but note the timeline ~ 45 years later / still under developement for safe effective use.

OK... So this goes back to what I was saying before (maybe we got mixed up). I have some thinning in front and behind the ears. I also have diffuse thinning top. I couldn't apply this all over my scalp and sides and back then, right? If this is the case it looks like I'm still screwed. HM probably won't work for me as my sides/back will thin out some more probably, and Hh will make hair look stupid...

Thanks again HH. You've been really helpful.

You’re Welcome. I love talking about this pathway. I’m glad other people are starting to learn about this pathway too. That is the reason why I set this site up.

I'm giving you all the worst case scenario’s as I don't want to get your hopes up. Some of this is theoretical because some of the stuff people have been asking have never been tested in an animal model. I don’t want to get your hopes up but I want you all to understand the potential for side effects for this cream, which have not been noted yet in animal models.

I don’t see any news more real news for Hh agonist and hair growth for another half a year or so.

I’m a little biased for the therapeutic potential of this pathway & cancer. IMO we could very well see a revolutionary treatment for some of the most lethal cancers.

Ah, worst case senerio. I was just about to ask how come mice were shaved and then given the treatment if using it where there was hair would give them a potential growth. But it makes sense now. I'm going to register now, I hate not being able to edit.

Hopefully things work out well and news shows up sooner then later.

Hey Hedgehog, I got something for you.

I was chatting with people on another site about Curis (mostly with stuff I've gotten from this site, which is a great help). This is what someone said about Hh agonist and hairloss. I was wondering if you could retort?.

Here it is...



I personally don't know enough about hairloss and Hh to comment back, but If you can I would be happy to see what you have to say.

First let me ask you what part of the hair follicle is getting attacked by the immune system? Is it attacking the part that supplies blood to the hair root?

Well lets see. Like I said I am not expert on hair loss, but let me assume what everything is correct above (which it probably is)

When Hh is turned on you get cells that are not as detectable by the immune system. Maybe there is some sort of relationship there. I would still like to see what part of the hair is attacked by the immune system. But I think it more likely causes the follicle cells to divide thus causing hairs to grow.

The whole theory about the hedgehog pathway comes from Adult Stems Cells. Hair's are thought to contain stem cells and when turned to divide you get hair growth.



Guess where the hedgehog pathway is expressed in the hair follicle? ..... Yep you got it
"The Bulge Cells."


Adult stem cells might hold to the key to the next generation of targets for therapeutic purposes including hair growth, cancer, and regenerative medicine. Adult stem cells are controlled by only a few pathways such as Hedgehog, Wnt, Notch, and a few others. These pathways are thought to be the master regulators of a lot of other pathways.


You can also say that in chemo induced alopecia hedgehog was also able to regrow hair as well. If you nock out hedgehog in embryonic development you don't get any hair growth....

Hi Hedgehog,

I was reading on one of the other sites about how long term hair loss that leads to areas of "slick bald scalp" may not be receptive to most of the proposed hair regrowth techniques (HM or even HT) because of long term scarring and fibrosis and the thinness of skin due to long term damage. It certainly seems to be the case with all of the hormonal based treatments. Even a regimen of topical cyproterone acetate, oral minoxidil and propecia doesn’t even seem to help in those cases. And as of right now, that is the state of the art treatment.

From what you know of the way hedgehog works, is there any reason to believe it will be effective despite of the factors mentioned above?

Thanks for the insights.

Regards.

To simply answer your question. I would say if there is still a hair follicle then there is a chance that it could work. The problem that Genetech and Curis found in BCC is that the topical formulation was not correct thus causing a halt to phase 1 trials. So, P & G and curis need to get the topical formulation correct in order to penetrated those areas without causing side effects.


Cheers

I'm curious about how hedghog might impact the pigmentation producing cells in (around?) the hair follicle. I guess where I'm going with this is the question: Will this signaling pathway also return the hairs to their normal pigmentation even if they were grey when the where falling out?

Regards

Sorry filmus50,

I have been very busy getting new data about the Hh pathway.

Here is what I could dig up, based on the curis published paper.



"The resultant hair
cycle was indistinguishable from a normal hair cycle (depilation
model) with no detectable differences in the cycle
length, histology, expression of Hh-pathway genes, epidermal
proliferation, differentiation, melanogenesis, or, ultimately,
in the hair produced. In addition, Hh-agonist
treatment did not appear to have any long-term effects on
the skin. Furthermore, we have also demonstrated that the
Hh-agonist is active in human scalp as measured by the
induction of Hh-pathway gene expression."


I posted some snippets from this paper here
http://www.pathway2curis.com/articles-of-hair-growth-hedgehog-agonist-pics-included-vt27.html


Have a good day

Will the recent hair loss discovery help any towards the cure?

Provided we are not left with an answer as to how much time it will take to have a Curis product on the market. How should you go about considering hair surgery?...How will this new topical miracle work on a scalp that has already been worked on by surgeons?

We all feel like screaming...'Are we there yet?' And it is incredibly frustrating to be left to wonder if, how, and when this thing will work.

Thank you for your time